http://www.sblogs.com/153/2007/05/18/the-definition-of-torture-2/ Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:06:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 http://www.sblogs.com/153/2007/05/18/the-definition-of-torture-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8 Paul Martin Wed, 23 May 2007 03:02:43 +0000 http://www.sblogs.com/153/2007/05/18/the-definition-of-torture-2/#comment-8 You're right - those cases of bribing people for "information" have not come sufficiently to the public's attention. I've heard reports on BBC and NPR that that's exactly how a lot of innocent people ended up in Guantanemo Bay. The military offerd a few thousand dollars for info on Al Quida, which is a lot of money there, and people started turning in others just for cash. From what I've heard and read, torture is also well known to produce false confessions and other forms of misinformation. To me this doesn't really seem too surprising. If you tell someone you'll either make them rich or beat them up for saying what you want them to say, a lot of people are going to tell you what you want to hear! But the Cheney Bush administration seems convinced, all evidence to the contrary not withstanding, that force or threat of force is pretty much always the way to go. You’re right – those cases of bribing people for “information” have not come sufficiently to the public’s attention. I’ve heard reports on BBC and NPR that that’s exactly how a lot of innocent people ended up in Guantanemo Bay. The military offerd a few thousand dollars for info on Al Quida, which is a lot of money there, and people started turning in others just for cash.
From what I’ve heard and read, torture is also well known to produce false confessions and other forms of misinformation. To me this doesn’t really seem too surprising. If you tell someone you’ll either make them rich or beat them up for saying what you want them to say, a lot of people are going to tell you what you want to hear! But the Cheney Bush administration seems convinced, all evidence to the contrary not withstanding, that force or threat of force is pretty much always the way to go.

]]> http://www.sblogs.com/153/2007/05/18/the-definition-of-torture-2/comment-page-1/#comment-9 Mark Shea Sat, 19 May 2007 06:15:37 +0000 http://www.sblogs.com/153/2007/05/18/the-definition-of-torture-2/#comment-9 There's a simple reason I give these definitions: they are the best I have. I am neither a moral theologian, nor a law enforcement professional. So I follow subsidiarity and refer people to those who are likely to have expertise in this area. People who are actually interest in knowing what is illicit coercion say, "Thanks" and go consult with those more like to have expertise than me. People who are bound and determined to be baffled and make the case for fog lie and say I refuse to give a definition and lament their terrible confusion about the difference between waterboarding and saying "hands up" while steadfastly refusing to lift a finger to offer one themselves. My point, as I weary of saying, is that the real question is not what exactly precisely is torture anyway? The real question is "How do we treat prisoners humanely?" If you aim to treat prisoners humanely you will not accidently torture them. If you aim to tiptoe right up to torture but not quite cross the line, you are already on the same dubious moral ground as the married man who wonders how far he can go with the secretary before it's technically precisely exactly adultery. There’s a simple reason I give these definitions: they are the best I have. I am neither a moral theologian, nor a law enforcement professional. So I follow subsidiarity and refer people to those who are likely to have expertise in this area. People who are actually interest in knowing what is illicit coercion say, “Thanks” and go consult with those more like to have expertise than me. People who are bound and determined to be baffled and make the case for fog lie and say I refuse to give a definition and lament their terrible confusion about the difference between waterboarding and saying “hands up” while steadfastly refusing to lift a finger to offer one themselves.
My point, as I weary of saying, is that the real question is not what exactly precisely is torture anyway? The real question is “How do we treat prisoners humanely?” If you aim to treat prisoners humanely you will not accidently torture them. If you aim to tiptoe right up to torture but not quite cross the line, you are already on the same dubious moral ground as the married man who wonders how far he can go with the secretary before it’s technically precisely exactly adultery.

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